Dear foreign doctor, are you dreaming of a medical specialty in Germany? Are you learning or planning to begin learning the German language? Some good news and bad news… But is the final balance more good or bad?

During the previous weeks, I and many of my doctor friends, were very frightened by the rumors that spread like fire in the German medical specialty-related facebook groups. These rumors, to the best of the understanding of me and some of my friends, talked about language and medicine exams for ALL foreign doctors coming to German. These rumors also profoundly shacked the German Residency dreams of us because they also talked how there will be no more thing as “Temporary Working Permit”. In other words, your parents should be affording the price of your stay in German (For weeks? Months? Years?) until you can pass these tests and be eligible for a working permit. Hence, starting to receive a salary. Is this true? This is very frightening! I tried to relieve my fears by not searching about the topic. Beside, rumors are still rumors. Nothing is 100% certain. When the next year comes, things would become more and more clear.

Today, I found the following great German article which talks how one German state is doing to change how it deals with foreign doctors coming to work in it. This great article was posted at the Language Geneartion Center (LGC) facebook group by Frau Dr. Renat Asali. Dr. Asali is the head of the LGC center and a professor at the German department at the University of Jordan. Dr. Asali knows a lot about medical specialty in Germany. Moreover, I think that she has been so far teaching German in Jordan for +20 years. I am mentioning Dr. Asali’s qualifications mainly because I do not know how good the website that published the article (although it has a very excellent design like those of famous American newspapers). I cannot trust that website. However, I think that I can trust Dr. Asali! In addition to the above qualifications, I know Dr. Asali personally. Dr. Asali is now my German language teacher at LGC!

With the help of Google Translate, I think that I understood most of the very informative article chosen by my teacher (Here is a link to the article translated by Google Translate). I will try to summarize what I understood. Hopefully, you can correct any mistakes I will make. Together, we can arrive at a better understanding.

Let me start with some good news. The article confirms the shortage of physicians in Germany. The shortage of physicians is still in thousands. Certainly, this would not change in months or even years:

“In the year 2012, 6000 doctor posts were unfilled in hospitals in Germany according to the Federal Chamber of Physicians. The doctors’ union Marburger Bund in 2011 even spoke of 12,000 vacancies rising.”

Here comes the bad news. The article talks how “in the past”, foreign physicians were allowed to work in Germany without having their “Language skills” examined:

“… no one has examined whether [foreign doctors] can make themselves understood, and whether they understand patients and colleagues at all.

But one might say, are not foreign doctors requested to pass the B2 level? Is not this a language test?

“The language diploma [B2] to prove that the doctor has understood the main ideas of complex text on an abstract theme and can maintain a normal conversation without problems. Medical language or the “understanding between the lines” are not checked.

So, having passed the B2 level is no longer thought of to be a good “surrogate” marker for the ability of the foreign doctors to deal with German patients. The article mentions example about how (1) foreign physicians are not communicating well with patients, that (2) they are not as good as their German counterparts, and unfortunately enough, (3) that German patients are now forced to be treated by doctors from countries in which they would voluntarily not be treated by whom.

"If I had the chance, I would not allow such a doctor to treat me!" An angry German patient not comfortable with his foreign physician

Rheinland-Pfalz/Rhineland-PalatinateTherefore, “One” German state, wants to allow this situation no more. This German state is Rheinland-Pfalz/Rhineland-Palatinate. [Since the most of doctor graduates of Mu’tah in Germany are now in the Nordrhein-Westfalen state (~8), then it is worth to say that this state is the sate immediately south of NW.]

Rheinland-Pfalz/Rhineland-Palatinate state now has a “medical language test”. Rheinland-Pfalz/Rhineland-Palatinate has already “piloted” this medical language test. What caught my attention is the failure rate:

“About 180 language tests have been deposited in Mainz far, most of candidates from Romania, Hungary, Russia and Syria. Around forty percent of applicants fail the test.”

Should we panic? How hard is the exam? This paragraph can give an approximate idea what the exam is about:

“Patient must make X-ray neck

After twenty minutes Manoppo did it. You must now summarize the conversation in a doctor’s letter. Prior to the twenty-five year old has already delivered a note with translation exercises. Then they should translate into German 25 Latin medical terms. Only four were right, “invasive” for “derma”, “axillary fossa” or is it not occurred to German term. At the end of the doctor’s letter, the interview and the translation exercise will feed into the review.”

This exam is already decided upon. The good/bad news; it is only in this sate, but other states are expected to follow:

“Rhineland-Palatinate makes today the first federal state in Germany a language test before foreign doctors are allowed to work there, other [sates] are following.”

I personally think that the language test, if applied, would not make a big problem. Firstly, they are testing only “language skills”. Secondly, and most importantly, it is not an MCQ exam. It is only a passed/failed Oral exam! Take a history… summarize it… Translate some medical terms into German… Well, does this sound like an almost identical but shortened German-version of the USMLE Step 2 CS?

But, before one can say that foreign doctors should not be afraid, one should remember the “Academic Performance Test”. The following talks how foreign doctors are now allowed to work and get salaries in Germany:

*** Doctors from safe third countries, they can only get if the competent authority has established the “equivalence” of education, that is, when the size of classes, the variety of subjects and practical activities equivalent to those of medical education in Germany. Uniform guidelines for does not yet exist. The awarding of the license and the design of the tests is the states. So far, most authorities do not even want to know before the Candidates. *******But even if the “equivalence” was not found, a foreign doctor can get a temporary work permit for that state 🙂 🙂 🙂 ******* To be after a set period of a “knowledge test” is stored, which is also the states. Rhineland-Palatinate asks from knowledge in the subjects of Internal and General Medicine, Surgery and Pediatrics. In the German exams medical students are tested in more than twenty subjects, including pharmacy, ear, nose and throat medicine, urology, gynecology, psychiatry, occupational medicine or social medicine…..

The failure rate for the knowledge test is in Rhineland-Palatinate at around fifty percent 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 :(. The test may be repeated three times****

To the best of my understanding, the article does not mention any thing about this being changed. Yes, if this “Academic Performance Exam” is to be extended to other German states, then certainly, the “around fifty percent” failure rate is VERY FRIGHTENING. However, there is a lot of “good news”:

1) Within a period of one and a half year, you are allowed to repeat the exam up to three times.

The failure rate for the knowledge test is in Rhineland-Palatinate at around fifty percent. The test may be repeated three times.

2) More than 20 subjects v.s. 3 subjects: German doctors are tested in over than 20 subjects. In RP state, foreign doctors are only tested in three subjects (Internal and General Medicine, Surgery and Pediatrics.).

“Rhineland-Palatinate asks from knowledge in the subjects of Internal and General Medicine, Surgery and Pediatrics. In the German exams medical students are tested in more than twenty subjects, including pharmacy, ear, nose and throat medicine, urology, gynecology, psychiatry, occupational medicine or social medicine.”

3) Thirdly, and this is the best piece of conclusion: You are given a “temporary working permit”. In other words, while preparing for the exam, you will be getting a “Salary”. Foreign doctors are given “a temporary work permit for that state”. The article does not mention anything about “No Wok (Salary) before passing the Language Proficiency Test and the Academic Performance Test”.

What about the situation in the rest of German states? Will their be exams there just like in Rheinland-Pfalz/Rhineland-Palatinate? The answer is in the SHORT TERM “No”. No decision has been reached yet:

The German Medical Assembly has already come out in May in Hannover for in June, the Conference of Health Ministers in Potsdam, completed in the claim. They also pleaded for an “improvement in the practice of recognition of foreign professional qualifications” means a transnational agency reports.

All in all, and to the best of my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, both of these tests are now confirmed in only one German state. Both of these tests are passed/failed exams. They are testing General information; whether in language or in medicine. Finally, and most importantly, you are not denied the “Temporary working permit” allowing you to work and get a salary before getting a salary. At least, you can work before passing the Academic Proficiency Test.

What do you think?

66 responses to this post.

  1. I got the following email:

    hello! thank you for all your information on your blog. i also just graduated from medical school in mexico and i want to do my specialty in germany. i am worried about this knowledge and language test that you posted that they may require. do you have any information on which books one can study? which states are better to apply for a position as a resident of internal medicine? also, is it very difficult to get a job before getting the degree recognized (as you need B2) first.

    i am sorry for all the questions its just that i dont know anybody from my school who has gone to germany so i have no one to ask, just the information i find online.

    thank you.

    Reply

    • Dear colleague,

      Thank you for you email. The books one need to study are in German. I was told that the exam tests general knowledge. It is an oral exam. One starts studying for it as soon as he finishes the B2 level. You cannot study for it while outside Germany! It is not like the USMLE! One should be in Germany in order to improve his langauge and learn the German medical terms. I am not worried about this exam. After all, it might not be started next year in a sate other than the state specified in my Article.

      Internal medicine is vey easy to get. I do not know further info where to apply. However, isolated areas are one of the easiest places to get a specialty in.

      Concerning getting a job before passing the langauge and medical tests: The rumors say that you cannot work before passing these tests. Nothing is yet confirmed! Some fo the rumors say that all will beging in 2014. I am not good enough yet in German to research the subject. Plus, they might change their opinion before the new year. When the new year comes, everything will be more clear.

      Almost 12+ students from my faculty went to Germany. At least 150+ from my country. However, the situation nowadays is harder than it was a few years ago. The competition is high and many doctors knew about specialty in Germany.

      As a result, one should have a lot of money for months of unpaid training in Germany before getting a salary.

      I heard about the Obama Care in the USA. I think that if it got applied, then the residency positions will increase by thousands. I think this would be a much cheaper option for you! Provided that Obama care is applied.

      This is most what I know for now. I think that things will be clear after the beginning of the new year. All the rumors put 1/1/2014 as the date of starting these exams.

      Thanks for passing in my blog.

      Best regards.

      Reply

  2. Obama Care, will it work?

    The following is from an article from FoxNews, today, 12/11/2013:

    “After failing to derail ObamaCare during the partial government shutdown, congressional Republicans have found new life in attacking President Obama’s signature health care law.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/11/republicans-shifts-to-chipping-away-at-obamacare-to-vote-this-week-on-keeping/

    Reply

  3. Posted by Renata on 12/09/2013 at 07:49

    Don´t take the article that serious 🙂 Jordanian medical doctors are good and mostly have no problems in Germany!

    Reply

    • Dear Dr. Renata,

      Firstly, it is an honor that you made a comment in my Blog :). Secondly, yes, I think too that Jordanian doctors are mostly good when compared with graduates of countries like ours. Nonetheless, I and many of my friends chose the German route of residency having great dreams about how easy the situation is. The suggested exams are probably easy-to-normal (if they were applied in the first place). I respect the right of German patients to have good doctors taking care of them. At least, in terms of their language skills!

      The positive side of reading such article as the above is that one would work more to improve his language skills. The situation is not like two or three years ago. More doctors are now traveling to Germany. Hence, one needs to improve his skills in order to be able to compete efficiently.

      Thank you again.

      Best regards.

      Reply

  4. Posted by nabeeha on 02/10/2014 at 22:28

    hey ..thnx i read the article n it helped me gather information about workin here .. i am an mbbs dr from pakistan and came to germany few months back bcz my husband works here .. i have done just the a1 level n will continue the rest in july . im just too afraid of working here ..i mean i did mbbs in english n now studying the whole medical fr basics to end in german is a big deal ..isnt it??

    Reply

    • Dr. Nabeeha,

      Thank you for your comment. This is the same situation for me when to comes to having learnt meidcine in English. It requires a lot of time to repeat the main medical knowledge we studied in German. But what can I do? The Match in the USMLE is getting harder year after year and the residency positions are fewer and fewer. I

      I wish you luck!

      Reply

  5. Posted by Vivek on 02/11/2014 at 16:46

    Sir, i’m a graduate doctor from india dreaming to do my speciality in Germany and i’m taking the B2 classes in German at present plz tell me how to apply for housemanship post in Germany, i heard that first i have to secure a job & later we have to apply for studying speciality in Germany, how far is it true? Sorry if i’m totally mislead in this matter ‘coz i’m just seeking knowledge from internet. Plz also tell me in detail how to get to germany for speciality training. Thank you in advance:)

    Reply

  6. Dear Dr Jameel,
    First off, allow me to thank you on the excellent job you’re doing. I have learned a lot from this singular article. Again, thank you.
    I have a few questions if you don’t mind. I am a non-European citizen about finishing my medical studies in Hungary (another EU country) and I wish to later practice and further my medical career in Germany. 1. Do you know if Germany allows the young doctor to pursue a PhD and residency at the same time, assuming I am working in a university hospital? 2. Talking of university hospitals, how easy are they to get in for foreigners? 3. Do some of these PhD posts pay? 4. I have started learning German, but have postponed because of the demanding work of final year. However, I plan to spend about 8-10 weeks later in a language school in Berlin later this year. Is this enough to reach up to the B2 level in an intensive programme? 5. How do you find interaction with both your German colleagues and patients? Any discrimination? (This is particularly important to me as I’m black and a muslim). 6. Finally, what is the average salary of an intern in, say, internal medicine per month after tax?
    I would be very grateful if you could take some time out of your busy schedule to answer all or some of my questions in your earliest convenience.
    Thank you so much.
    Regards,
    Abdul.

    Reply

    • Dear colleague,

      I hope that you are doing fine. I want firstly to clarify that I am still in Jordan. I finished medical school last June. I need at least 4 months to travel to Germany.

      # .”.. am a non-European citizen about finishing my medical studies in Hungary”: European Union citizens have a lot of advantages (what I know of, that they can be given work permit without any exams, like doctors from outside the EU). Moreover, EU citizens are preferred to others because of similarities in cuclture and customs. Regarding this last point, I do not think it is a problem for the rest of Europeans.

      # Regarding being black and Muslim: There are a lot of areas in Germany with Turksih majorities. I think that muslims are welcomed there. The last time I read, I think that Muslims in Germany are 4 million. There are mutliple facebook groups about specializing in Germany, from what I read, the Germans are mostly open-minded when it comes not to Niqaba, sometimes Hijab, and men having beards.

      # University hospitals are the best. However, they pay less and there are tougher residency exams. I do not know how easy it is for a foreigner to go there. However, it is harder than regular hospitals. What I understood, a person needs to improve his medical and language skills in remote hospitals, then he can apply at university hospitals. Unless of course, this is a speculation of mine, that a person has an impressive CV (research, prizes, German clinical experience, impressive langugae, etc).

      – The best facebook page I know of about higher studies in Germany: https://www.facebook.com/Study.in.Germany?fref=ts

      – Thousands of schoalrships for studying in Germany – The DAAD (German Academic Exchange Service): https://www.daad.de/en/
      – DAAD’s worldwide page on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DAAD.Worldwide?fref=ts
      N.B. I noticed that there are DAAD pages for multiple countires and regions on facebook. For example, there are a specific DAAD page for Jordan (https://www.facebook.com/daad.jordan?fref=ts)

      – A great page about PhD in Germany suggested to me by the DAAD regional office in Jordan: https://www.study-in.de/en/study/phd-germany/

      http://www.research-in-germany.de: You can throught this website explore empty research positions throughout Germany. It was also recommended by the DAAD regional office in Jordan.

      # When you are at a University hospital, I thinkt hat you are getting also an Academic degree (Master) [Do you think that a doctor can be doing residenncy, getting a master, and doing a PhD at the same time?]. A medical doctor can directly enter into PhD in Germany. However, this is without residecy. Can anyone combine residency and PhD? I do not think so.

      # Salaries: I almost always heard, >2,000 Euro afte taxes. When you are allowed to do nightshifts, this can easily increase to at least 3,000 Euro.

      # Interactions with patients and colleagues: I am not yet there 🙂 However, I did not hear anything particularly alarming!

      Best regards.

      Reply

      • Dear Dr Jameel,
        Thank you for your prompt reply. Really appreciated. It’s an oversight on my own side not to have understood that you were not yet in Germany. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Still, soon you’ll be there. So, wishing you all the best!
        I had chosen to be notified of any replies or follow-up comments on your blog via email but I don’t get any. Do you think the problem is from your blog? Because I receive alerts from other blogs that I follow via my gmail.
        I have gone through the links you’ve provided. I’ve found them very useful to say the least.
        As I am still behind, you will hopefully get to start working in Germany before me. And I do hope and pray that you will continue the good work you’ve started on this blog-giving free useful info for prospective doctors,even better from your firsthand experience.
        I will continue to follow your blog.
        Please keep up the good work.
        Again, thank you for all your help.
        Kind regards,
        Abdul.

        Reply

        • Dear Dr. Shehu,

          Thanks for your nice wishes and the sophisticated reply. You use English very beautifully.

          Concerning the notifications problem, blog owners do not have anything to do with that. Our blogging provider (WordPress) handles it. Maybe you did not check the “notification” option or maybe you did not confirm following the blog in your email. Or maybe the notifications emails are in your spam.

          I do not blog only about the specialty in Germany. Thanks for your request. When I know important information, I will publish them in my Blog. I hope that I will have time to do that.

          Regarding your beginning to learn the German language, as they say in German, Viel Glück (a lot of luck).

          Best regards.

          Reply

        • Yes, in case you have facebook, I have this group about learning the German language especially for doctors. You are welcome to join in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoctorsLearningGermanTogether/

          Most of the members are Jordanian doctors wanting to specialize in Germany.

          Reply

  7. Posted by zaid mohammed on 03/23/2014 at 17:15

    Hellow, thank you for your blog and supporting spirit, I’m a resident of urology from iraq, and I have a schoolarship to have my speciality in germany, do you think it is possible to get an initial conditional acceptance from a university hospital without the b2, given that I will bring this level in a year, like the saudi doctors do, the problem is in iraq we dont have companies that provide facilities for speciality training in germany like jordan, I tried to contact german hospitals directly and I could get a practicum , yet no I couldnt get any chance of specialty training.
    Thank you

    Reply

    • Dear colleague,

      I hope that you are doing fine. I finished medical school last June and I have never been to Germany yet. I therefore do not have a lot of experience and my information is from facebook groups and Jordanian doctors and students that I interact with.

      “do you think possible to get an initial conditional acceptance from a university hospital without the b2”. I do not understand exactly what you mean by “scholarship”. However, for all Jordanian doctors that I know, and two assistant professors at my prevoius faculty, all of them had the B2 certificate before starting to apply to residency positions. I have never ever heard that you can get accepted without the B2 certificate. However, what is I am 99% sure of, is that you cannot get a working permit without having at least the B2 certifiacte. There are often exceptions. I do not know if there are in your case.

      Reply

  8. Posted by Ameer Hamza on 03/26/2014 at 14:36

    I am from Pakistan and I am studying in Romania. I am in my fifth year now. I am taking german language courses too. In couple of months I will reach B2 level.
    Do u think I will have a chance to get residency in Germany in 2015 keeping changes implemented by some german states.?

    Reply

  9. Posted by Ameer Hamza on 03/26/2014 at 14:37

    Thank in Advance.

    Reply

    • I do not see why you will not get a residency. The changes that took (?), or will take place, are only to assess the language skills and medical knowledge of foregin medical doctors wanting to work in Germany.

      Reply

  10. Posted by Olu ola on 04/09/2014 at 18:47

    I am a Nigerian,a Medical student in Ukraine currently in my 5TH year of study.I want to inquire for June 2015 when i will complete my 6th year(graduate from medical school)
    As i understand i need to learn German language to be able to specialize in Germany.I have 2 question
    (1)Can i get a visa after my graduation to language school in Germany
    (2)After completing the language school,do i have an assurance of getting an hospital for my specialty immediately?
    (3)Are there special requirements to meet before one is been admitted for specialty?
    (4)Is there any source of income during language course
    (5)During specialty are the specialty students paid?If yes how much averagely.
    Please,i will really appreciate if you can answer my questions in details
    Looking forward to your reply.
    Thanks

    Reply

    • 1) Anyone can!
      2) No!
      3) Doctors outside the EU are less and less accpted in highly competitive specialties. They say the language is the most important factor. I recently also started to hear that experience in the desired specialty is important. Connections.
      4) I think that you are not allowed to work with any type of visa other than “Arbeitvisum (Working visa)”. The visa that you are given for language school is eitehr C (schingen) or D. I understood that if you were caught working, you will be kicked out of Germany.
      5) Average salaries not less than 2,000 Euro. When you advance in residency, you can get extra-shifts and they charge like 20-80 Euro per hour depending on specialty (I am not sure though).

      I am not yet in Germany. The majority of my information is from this person or that, and from unofficial Arabic facebook pages and groups about specialty in Germany.

      Good Luck 🙂

      Reply

  11. Posted by ahmed on 04/24/2014 at 01:54

    السلام عليكم لله يجزيك الخير و ينولك يلي ببالك
    و أن شا لله بتتوفق بحياتك
    عندي كم سؤال بتمنى تجاوبني عليهن اذا عندك وقت
    باعتبار لسا ما قررت اختص بألمانيا بعد و متخرج من شهر
    1- المدة اللازمة لمشروع الاختصاص بألمانيا حتى انال الاختصاص
    2- تكلفة هالمشروع عدا تعلم اللغة باعتبار وضعك مشابه لوضعي
    3- شو يلي لازم اعملو خلال مدة تعلمي ل اللغة اجراءات علما انو انا بسوريا
    4-بقدر اقلب الفيزا من دراسة لغة لفيزا اختصاص في ألمانيا و ما الإيجابيات و السلبيات لهيك خطوة
    5- بعرف صديق بزاول اختصاص داخلية قلبية بألمانيا من خمس سنين . بشو بقدر يخدمني بشكل عام و بشكل خاص بموضوع عقد عمل يمشفى من أجل الاختصاص
    6- هل صحيح يلي بيطلع بفيزا عقد عمل ما بيحتاج ال 8 الاف يورو التأمين
    7- عمل ستاج قبل الاختصاص ايجابيات و سلبيات بشكل عام و خاص بالنسبة لقبول بالختصاص
    آسف كتير ع الكتابة بالعربي أو بالعامية و ع الإطالة !!
    شكرا كتير و لله حيو النشامة

    Reply

    • صديقي… من عدد ونوع الأسئلة التي سألتها فأستطيع أن أستنتج بسهولة إنك لم تقرا سوى لدقائق عن موضوع الإختصاص في المانيا. أنت لم تترك أي موضوع ولم تسأل عنه. أتوقع أنه يجب أن تقرأ عن الموضوع بشكل كامل قبل أن تقرر أن تبدأ بموضوع الإختصاص في ألمانيا. ولا أعتقد أنه يجب ان تعتمد على رأي شخص واحد. وبصراحة، الأسئلة التي سألتها تحتاج إلي صفحات من الشرح!!! “لا تعطني خبزيي اليومي… ولكن علمني كيف أخبز”. لمعرفة الإجابة على كل الأسئلة أعلاه، يمكنك أن تعمل التالي:

      1) إقرأ معظم المقالات في أفضل مدونة عربية عن الإختصاص في ألمانيا واسمها مدونة الدكتور فراس عبيدات. الشرح مختصر وواضح وهناك العديد من الصور ترافق كل مقالة: http://www.drferas.com

      2) إقرأ البوستات المنشورة في الجروبات العربية على الفيسبوك والمختصة بالإختصاص في المانيا. أنت لن تعرف الإجابة فقط على أسئلتك، بل ستتعرف على أمور ونواحي من موضوع الإختصاص لا تعرف عنها. أهم هذه الجروبات حسب رأيي المتواضع:
      – جروب الدكتور فراس عبيدات صاحبة المدونة الشهيرة أعلاه: https://www.facebook.com/groups/termins/
      – جروب إختصاص الطب في ألمانيا: https://www.facebook.com/groups/156327137723884
      – الأطباء الأردنيون في المانيا: https://www.facebook.com/groups/406905339399229/
      – Doctors & Germany: https://www.facebook.com/groups/125928410764213
      – الى كل الدكاترة المهتمين بالسفر لالمانيا: https://www.facebook.com/groups/doctorsaloma2009/
      – From A-Z | Medical Specialty in German: https://www.facebook.com/groups/311334755604432
      – Egyptian Doctors for Germany: https://www.facebook.com/groups/377408505663230/

      وهناك العديد من الجروبات الأخرى…

      ملاحظة أخيرة: إذا قام أي شخص بسؤال أسئلة عامة عن الإختصاص في ألمانيا، فلاحظت أنه في معظم الأحيان يتم توجيه هذا الشخص ليقرأ البوستات السابقة..

      إقرأ جيدا عن موضوع ألمانيا قبل أن تبدأ…

      بالتوفيق 🙂

      Reply

  12. Posted by Jane_ on 04/26/2014 at 14:50

    Hi, my name is Jane. I am a doctor working for almost 8 years in Macedonia, Europe. My country is not a part of EU. To get in German hospital you need to have B2 level of German language. That is very hard for a foreigner, because you can not understand the talking and listening at the main test. They have shortage for doctors, but for foreigners it will be very hard…

    Reply

  13. Question on facebook:

    Khan Fahim
    21:34
    Khan Fahim
    hallo brother Jameel , i had to inquire somethings from you regarding post graduation in Germany.I have done some initial research on my own .
    The major requirements are: 1) have a medical degree recognized by the German medical board 2) have German knowledge upto B2 level.Im working on my german language these days.
    My questions are:
    1)after completion of B2 how do i apply for job in various hospitals.Are there any reliable agencies that help in this process ?
    2)Is it possible to do Phd in any field while doing post-graduation. (MD & Phd together).
    3.I contacted an Indian agency and they are asking me to pay 10000 euros in advance to gain entry into German post graduation program.I am attaching a copy of their proposal.
    Thank-you in advance.God bless.

    Reply

    • 1) You go for a hospitasion (clinical attachment). You sharpen your general and medical language skills and then you can apply for interviews to work. However, it is now hard to get work interviews. To get more interviews:
      A) C1 Certificate
      B) Approbation (recognition of your medicine certficiate in Germany. If it was not recognized, you need to pass a medical exam [Medizin Test]).
      C) Passing Medical Language Test

      2) PhD or even Master require some time. I do not know if anyone can have enough time do MD and do PhD at the same time. Are you allowed in the first place to study a master or PhD partially a few days a week? Are you allowed not to work most days of the week during residency? I do not think that a person will have time to do both at the same time. However, it would be great if this was allowed.

      3) The amount of money this agency is requiring is crazy. In Jordan, for example, an agency requires a total payment of 3,000 Euro (initial pay 2,500). The greatest majority of doctors told me that this is not guaranteed and that 3,000 Euro is a lot of money. How come if the money is like the company you are talking about:

      1. 55000 euros – Surgicals
      2. 60000 Euros – Radiology
      3. 45000 Euros – Medical Branches.

      This is really crazy! 55,000 Euro? Who is stupid enough to agree to pay such a sum of money, even if he was guaranteed a position in neurosurgery!!!

      Regards.

      Reply

  14. Posted by ghassan on 05/23/2014 at 13:47

    hy mr jameel, i’m a medical student from morocco, i will get my degree in 2016 and i heard that one must apply for a practice training so that it would be easy for him to continue there after graduation. i wish to do so but the probleme is i don’t know how to. it would be great sir if you could give me some information about this either here on your blog or by sending a message on my email whish is (gtadu14@msn.com).please sir accept all my gratitudes. greatings from morocco.

    Reply

    • Hello,

      I know some students from Jordan who did their sixth-year elective in Germany. I do not know what steps they did. I just know that you need to have some knowledge of German. You can then probably send emails for training. For sure results, however, please ask your question in two or three of the Facebook groups mentioned above.

      Best of luck.

      Reply

  15. Posted by Brilliant on 07/23/2014 at 05:04

    Dear dr. Jameel

    How are you? I’ve been reading this article and its comments, first I wanna say thank you so much for sparing your time writing this article and answering all questions, may God bless you 🙂
    I’m a medical student in my 3rd year, I’m planning to go to German just like you, so I hope you are will to share your experiences, not your experiences in Germany because I see that in March you were saying thay you are not yet in Germany and prolly would make it in the next 4 months which is July which is now ^^… so how is it? I hope you made it already for all your kindness to others
    I wanna know specifically about your preparation..
    What did you do, what are you doing to face all the tests? What books what sites what everything ^^
    How do yoi study the language?
    How many hours you spend your time to study all stuffs for ‘germany dreams’ since you are a medical student also and must be busy of it 🙂
    How much money did you spend for it?
    I really hope to know all the answer because what I can conclude from your article is that you have that big dream and huge optimism to reach your goal, it lookes like you are ready with every test and will not give up how hard it is, I’d love to see it
    I hope you success
    Best regard,

    Brilliant ^^

    Reply

  16. […] back then, I translated and discussed an article related to medical specailty in Germany (Article: Dear foreign doctor, are you dreaming of a medical specialty in Germany?…). This post had a lot of comments and views and it soon became very famous. My blog posts’ […]

    Reply

  17. Hi.. I am dr. Shriram from india.. Read a lot abt medicine in germany..EXCELLENT BLOG!
    .just want to know…do IMGs HAVE to do a thesis in german language??
    And…isnt learning MEDICAL german wayy tougher than normal day to day german??

    =========================

    – Thesis about what? This is my first time to hear about that.
    – In my opinion, learning medical german is actually easier because many words are similar to English ones. It is much much easier than reading in German about environmental protection, globalization or preserving the past.

    Reply

    • Posted by shriram on 08/04/2014 at 09:58

      All post graduate courses in most countries…to be recognised… Need a student to submit a thesis at the end of the course. If you go to any country in the world for your degree to be recognised…they require you to have proof of thesis submission. Ask the german universities as u know good german!

      Reply

  18. Posted by chirag on 11/10/2014 at 16:52

    Hello jameel !!
    I’m Chirag..An Indian citizen with a medical qialification (MD Physician) from ukraine (non-EU country with similar system to that of germany k/a “Bologna”). Currently I’m planning for further specialization in germany.

    I just went through your blog. I think this is the best article one can find for german aspirants. I Thank you very much for such detailed info and replies to the comments. I would be really grateful to you if you could clear a couple more issues I’m mentioning hereby:-

    1. How did you apply for specialization? Through an agent or personally to the hospital/university though email? And is it possible to apply personally and get selected? I have read somewhere that agents have good connections and can easily hook you up, but there charges are pretty high.
    2. I wanted to go to germany for language course. For this I got an admission in one of german college for MBA, so that it would be easy to get visa and I can learn better language while staying there plus, I will have better opportunity to contact hospitals personally. Do you think this is a nice idea..?
    3. What does it take to get selected for specialization? Does it simply require a basic qualification or better grades? I dont have very nice grades coz of poor system, but my level of knowledge is much higher.

    Also let us know whether you have made it to germany yet or not? I hope and wish you have really good time ahead. keep us uptodate with your experiences. Thanx again..tc

    Reply

    • Hello,

      Thanks for the nice comment.

      1) Agents are for free. But since last ear or so, they no longer work with doctors who do not have Approbation (read about it in my Blog and in the group… A lot of information!!!). Alternatively, one can send emails to applly for jobs. Without Approbation, it is almost very hard to get job. There are tens of jobs sites.
      2) German college can help you with Visa and get a monthly transport ticket at a low price. A person profits but I do not know if it is legal to “lie” and say that you want to study in university while you are not. One doctor here made that and suggested on me doing that!!! I do not want to bring myself problems and risk my stay in Germany maybe for the rest of my life. Therefore, definitely did not and will not do that.
      3) Specialization: Approbation >>> German Language >>> German Language >>> German Language >>> German Language >>> German Language >> Experience in specialty and Hospitations. In university hospitals researches might help too.

      I am in Germany since less than seven weeks. I applied for Approbation and doing C1 course. I am not yet applying for job because I want to perfect firstly my German and transporation costs a lot of money not to mention that I do not yet have Approbation.

      Looking at some of your question, I think that you need to read more about the specialty in Germany. Please read all the posts in my blog (www.amanfrommoab.com/category/doctors-going-to-germany/) and join my gorup: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoctorsLearningGermanTogether/

      I read for days and still reads almost weekly to know more about this route for specialization. It needs a lot of reading!

      Best regards.

      Reply

      • Posted by Johnny on 12/21/2014 at 18:00

        Hi Jameel

        Glad to see your great post here. I have a question to ask you

        I am a Medical student studying in China, currently doing a one year Internship program and I will graduate next summer 2015, but then I won’t have “Practising License” in the country where I learn right now. Is it a must to have it? As I searched through German Medical Council and it only says that I have to apply for Approbation or if my Medical degree is not equivalent to German’s then I have to sit for Kenntnisstandprüfung.

        Reply

        • Hello,

          As far as I know, the medical license is a MUST. Of course, there are exceptions, but I do not know what they are. In my country all doctors have MEDICLA LICENSE before comign to Germany.

          ” I have to apply for Approbation or if my Medical degree is not equivalent to German’s “… All those who got their certificates from universities from outside the European Union are not equivalent “until proven otherwise”. The doctor will submit his curriculums to be studied by an expert (Gutachter). The curriculum is compared to that of a German univeristy. If it was found equal, the doctor then is either given German medical license directly (e.g., in Dresden) or, as in Munster and Arnsberg, will have to do a Medical German Language Test.
          If judged not equal, the doctor will then have to do the knowledge exam (Kenntnissprüfung). This requires much much more studying than the Medical German Language Test.

          Reply

    • Posted by K P Ashok on 12/20/2014 at 08:03

      Chirag

      One important ponit you need to note here. While your Ukrainian Medical Degree is considered as a recognised Medical degree for futher training in Germany, you also need to have a “Practising License”. So, unless you have registration in the Medical Council in Ukraine, you need to have MCI registration to become eligible to do specialist training in Germany.

      Let me also bust some Myths here.

      1. No Agent can get you a Training position in Germany.
      2. Merely possesin a b2 or C1 of Medical German certification is not enough to obtain a hospital position.
      3. Like any other job interview, applicants are judged on a 360 degree basis, not only on grades.
      4. The competition is very high now and the best, most motivated candidates stand a chance of getting placed.

      So, Please take this step with careful preparation and have a strategy to overcome all the challenges before you take the plunge. Going for one course and trying to do something else is a big NO NO! Visa violations will be identified during the application of extension, and that will be the end of the whole story.

      So, approach this straightforward, prepare for lots of hard work and brace for hardknocks. Yes, you will need to bu adequately funded as well. If one takes all this in stride, then the dream will be fulfilled,

      Best of Luck

      Ashok

      Reply

  19. Posted by sekhar on 12/10/2014 at 04:37

    hi jameel .. u r doing a nice job i have one question regarding to visa
    i heard and read that one must deposit 8000 euros in a closed bank account per year for visa as a proof that they will bear all their finances while they r in germany is it true becoz its a lot of money .. what proof of finance did u show for getting visa?

    Reply

    • Exactly… 670 Euro per each month you want to stay in Germany or you can have a German agreeing to sign a document that he will cover any financial requests on your behalf. For more info, search in my blog for “closed bank account”

      Reply

  20. Posted by Deygon on 01/06/2015 at 19:50

    Hey there,
    I wanted to know if I need a medical license from my home country (India). I finished medicine from one of the EU countries (Czech Republic, Germany’s neighbor), so does this mean I need to be licensed in my home country (India) in order to get Approbation?

    Thanks!

    Reply

  21. Posted by soham bhaduri on 01/24/2015 at 15:04

    Hi jameel…this is soham from India.m awaiting my final year results.I request u to answer two of my queries:
    I have a few people informing me that we need at least a year of pg training(MD/MS/DNB in home country) to be eligible for pg training in Germany?is there any truth in it?
    Secondly, are good grades in graduation and work experience after graduation decisive factors in some way?

    Reply

    • Hello,

      You need to have medicla license from your home country. Internship year is also required. Some do not do that… I do not know how the exception is made. But it is requested.

      Marks are almost not lookeda at. Working experience, especially in surgery is much welcomed. But number one is language and medical license.

      Join and read the most recent posts in my group. They can answer your questions more: http://www.facebook.com/groups/DoctorsLearningGermanTogether

      Reply

  22. Posted by itisme on 07/14/2015 at 23:39

    Hello,
    With a kind Heart i ask you following and am anticipating a reply
    I am a medical student who is studying in Russia ( The university is not in the Anabin list ). I am under going a German Language course simultaneously with my Medical Studies.
    My intention is to do my internship and later work in German.
    I am curious about the internship programs in Germany and ways to process it right after graduating from my med School.
    1.please explain me how it is done in German (internships applying procedure )
    2. Are we paid in the internship period and if yes how much ?
    3. If my university is not in the Anabin list how does the procedure differ ?

    I am more concern about the procedure of how to get an internship right after i graduate from my med school and also after i get my German Language Qualification to a level of B2-C1.

    Waiting for a favourable reply
    Regards

    Reply

  23. Posted by Firuza on 10/29/2017 at 14:04

    Assalamu ‘alaikum
    How are you now Dr? Are you in Germany? I just have a few questions if you are in…

    Reply

  24. Posted by imroz khatri on 04/19/2018 at 07:46

    Hello and very good day sir… sir i am basically from india and i graduated from ukraine as a doctor … then i came back to india and learned german.. i am almost finishing learning.. i wanted to ask you that it is mecessory to pass indian fmge screening for germany to get job there?

    Reply

  25. Posted by Mery on 05/19/2018 at 17:32

    Hello…iam a doctor from india completed my post graduation in obstetrics and gynaecology…iam moving to germany…my question is can i get any salary job before getting my approbation?pls some one help me

    Reply

    • in some states, you are allowed to work with Berufserlaubis (temporary approbation). The laws are differnt based on the states. In many states, this is not possible. At your place, I would aim to get the Approbation. This is most important.

      Reply

  26. Good day. I am a Nigerian doctor who just finished my internship and is thinking of coming to Germany for my residency program. I’d like to know
    1. How long does it take to learn the language required to be certified able to work?
    2. I finished from Ukraine(do they accept the degrees from there)?
    3. Is it possible to get a posting for surgical residency?
    Thanks in advance

    Reply

Do you have anything to say? عندك إشي تحكيه؟ (Unless you are posting spam or using aggressive language, I will publish your comment whether I like it or not)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s